My name is Melanie and I am known on here as Recovering Catholic. I know that some people reading this site will understand what it is that I will try to say in this post. Please bear with me as I find it hard to explain what it is that has gotten me to this point. I would first like to point out that I am still in constant conflict within myself, as you will see from my previous posts. I was raised in a Roman Catholic family and even went to a Catholic elementary school. I was taught by nuns wearing those silly black and white habits, and I was taught about the church. I never questioned it. When I was a little older I became involved in my church. I was in the choir, spent my school holidays at retreats (which I begged to go to) and even read at Mass. It was, however, at that point, that I found myself questioning some of the teachings that the Church had. I had a struggle inside of me because I didn’t agree with them, and when it came time for me to be confirmed I was told to just “follow the beliefs that I want to and leave the rest by the wayside” (quote from my mom). I was confirmed and later chose to attend an all girls Catholic college. I even voiced my regret that I couldn’t attend a Catholic high school. Again I was involved with my faith. I taught confirmation classes through the local diocese and interned at the local Catholic junior high school. Throughout these years there were personal things happening to me that were making me more and more uncomfortable with the Church teachings. I couldn’t understand why the God that I was teaching about would let me experience infertility and subsequent sicknesses if He loved me. The last straw was when I was cheated on. My mom and I each asked a priest what he thought I should do. We each got a different answer. All I could think about was the fact that even the people in the Church couldn’t agree so no wonder it was confusing to me. Ultimately, I found myself disagreeing with the Church and its teachings more than I was agreeing, and this has led me to where I am today. I know that there are other people out there, maybe even reading this right now, who are questioning who they are and what they have been taught, but are too afraid to say anything. Comment on here about it! I know that I am not the only one.
Have it, read it. Of course, Lee Stroble touts that he was an atheist who found god. An atheist cannot “find” god as he does not believe that one exists, therefor there is no search.
As for the “message of Christ,” please tell me what message that was as well as how that message was original. After all, passages like that of the famous “Sermon on the Mount” are found (almost verbatim) in the teachings in older religions (for example, Sermon on the Mount’s same tenants can be found in the teachings of Buddha some 500 years prior to Jesus).
Jared,
Good quote. Gandhi was referring to the vast majority of Christians. Do you believe he was excluding your particular flavor of Christian?
You consider yourself a representative of Christ? How very humble.
You finish up with “Nothing will persuade me otherwise”. Why don’t you just say “My mind is completely closed to any alternative, no matter how well it is supported. God himself could come down and tell me that the entire Jesus story is a crock, and I would refuse to change my mind.”
You won’t hear a true, rational atheist say something like that. We’re willing to change our minds if our preconceived notions fail when tested; the processes of Logic and Science demand it. Religion demands unquestioning belief in the face of any challenge. Great. So much for compassion and understanding, you’ve already made up your mind.
Jesus (the man) may not have been, but Christ (Messiah, Son of God) was almost certainly a myth.
I am not sure why you, or anybody else, blames God when their perfect little life becomes uncontrollable. May i remind you the life of his 12 deciples, did they have a perfect life? How about Job? What was his attitude when all that was precious to him was taken away? Our hope and faith, is it placed on man or God?
Do you actually believe that your church leader is actually a perfect sinless man? If he fails you, is he not just human prone to mistakes? Be real, our goal in life is to please God, and become better people, or do you actually believe that once we join the church we “magically” become perfect, and nothing bad will ever happen to us? Be real.
I lost a child, and it hurt us so bad but, what attitude was i to take? Was i the first person that this had happened to? Ofcourse not, I praised Him and honored him, is this logical? No. “the peace of God surpasses all understanding, and it is this peace that people do not understand, and therefore, hate us for it…so be it -written from my iPhone.
inginious, I never got that she “blames God” for the problems that she has had in her life. What I got out of Melanie’s post is that, yes, there has been turmoil in her life. But when she turned to what she thought would give her what she was looking for (guidance, comfort, peace or hope), all she found were more questions.
“Be real, our goal in life is to please god…” Why on Earth would I choose to worship such an ego maniacal being?
Yup, it’s sad that she did not get that consolation from a “dependable” source, what can you do about that? Is this situation not similiar to when a father (or role model) failed you in something? My advice: “in the council of many, you shall find wisdom” though you may not always hear what you want but, it may just be for your own good. Is this a reason to stop believing? Or practicing?
was your belief purely a religious ritual or a lifestyle?
Why on earth would choose to worship him? Don’t! He wants obedience first before worship; truthful worshipers, not mediocore ones. You have already chosen not worship him, so be it, He does not need you. And what’s with the name calling? You do not know him enough to be judging him? Honestly, have read and understood the bible? You know he is love but, do you also know he is like a consuming fire? Judgement will be coming and everyone wiill be judged, believe it or not… A loving God? you ask? Yup, the same God in the bible that you see towards the end of it, where he is presented as a lion (no longer a lamb). You choose your own destiny, prepare for your outcome…typed on my iphone, again :)
… Just wanted to say that this is a great site, I’m hoping to visit often
Ing,
It appears that TJM “judged” god by his actions… The Bible is pretty clear on the idea that God is an egomaniac. I mean, Satan managed to play on God’s ego, convincing God to torture Job just by insinuating that Job was really indifferent to God.
Oops. “Hey, God? Yeah, someone wrote “Gullible” on your forehead.”
As far as the “peace of god” surpassing all understanding - peace is a rather simple concept. The only way to misunderstand it is when someone calls “war” peaceful.
“In the council of many you shall find wisdom” - Appeals to Popularity are logical fallacies. You acknowledge human fallibility, but you ignore that it is possible for EVERYONE to share a fallacious idea. Brilliant.
(As far as you typing on your iphone: My condolences. I’ve used one, it’s not very impressive, and certainly not worth even half of the going rate.)
Good for you, rival!
frankly, i want move on to other topics, kinda got bored at this one…’till we meet again! :)
please don’t take this as running away, ill check in on other interesting topics, hope to see you too!
And as far as the iPhone, i did not buy it, i was one of the engineers that reviewed it before around launch time and, therefore, got one for free (don’t hate! :))! nope did not cost me anything (cost of production ~$200)…And btw, your right its not worth the going rate but, for a $0 price tag, it’s definately worth it!…bottom line, wait for iphone2.
correction: not before the lauch date but, around launch time, i wasn’t going to wait in line!
It’s really too bad that inginious is gone now. I wanted to say that his/her comment ” You know he is love but, do you also know he is like a consuming fire?” is really disturbing to me. I can’t believe that others aren’t freaked out by that!!! Nowadays it would be called emotional and mental abuse! “I love you and want what is best for you.” “If you leave I will hunt you down and kill you…I love you and don’t want you to leave.” (Some things that I heard from battered women at the shelter that I worked at while in college.) What the men in their lives were saying to them, I think, is no different than the sentence that inginious put into his/her post. Also, what he/she missed is all of the beginning of my post. I didn’t stop practicing because my “perfect little life” wasn’t going too well. I was questioning before that, but since it was much more convenient for him/her to skip that part, I will just let it go. Also, I don’t want to “obey” something/someone who states that they love me but would hurt me just to see if I really do love them.
Dear Recovering Catholic:
As a recovering Catholic myself I can sure empathize with you. The journey you are going on is a difficult one, but as someone who has gone through it, I can say it is worth the trip.
Inginious represents what is the most difficult thing on your journey. There will always be those who try to pull you back. Just remember to search for the truth in your own heart and mind, and don’t let anyone convince you of anything because a book says it.
If there is a God, he gave us free will. Exercising that free will by questioning what you have been taught is tribute to that gift.
If there is no God, than exercising that free will may open your mind to an entirely different sense of what is real, and what is true.
I feel far more enlightened and happy now than I ever did as a catholic.
I am sorry for the loss and pain you have suffered, and I hope you can convince yourself that is was not God testing you.
My father died on Christmas morning at a family gathering. I blamed God at first, but it was not until I let go of that belief that I could move on. Today I am grateful for every moment I spent with him and can enjoy Christmas again (although as a closet atheist it is sort of confusing)
Anyway, Seek the truth and you will be happy.
Richard
Though it is a tired phrase here. My condolences. I found my biggest sadness for you was in the infertility, and it’s not as though I’ll ever be having children.
Now, on to my attack.
To Jared:
You come onto a site like this with an attitude like that? Nothing will ever make you disbelieve. Huh. No wonder there are still Christians in the world, you just refuse to admit defeat. In particular, I find you to be quite an emotional vulture. Honestly, when people are feeling at their worst, that is worst time to say “Hey, read this book. It will make everything go away.” It’s lying, and opportunism. Lastly, don’t pray for people. Do something.
Okay, that was a very personal attack.
Note-to-self: Don’t do that again.
To Inginious:
It never bothered you to be an ant? It never bothered you to feel you have to prostrate yourself before an egomaniac? Rather than rely on an imaginary friend for comfort and solidarity, I would find within myself the strength. Ah, but the twelve-steps of Christian Brainwashing beg to differ. They get you to say you’re helpless, and that you must have god. So, the idea is for god to be a crutch.
Damn. Must stop with the personal attack, I think it’s mostly because I feel like they’re being twits to Recovering Catholic.
I have to agree on one point shared by many people:
How does this god figure not deeply disturb anyone that reads about it?
RSS feed for comments on this post · TrackBack URI
Jared said,
July 19, 2007 @ 3:00 pmI am so sorry for your loss. Your pain is obviously very real and goes deep. “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” So says Mahatma Gandhi, and I would agree. The Church is comprised of fallible Christians and MANY have made very damaging mistakes. These mistakes have turned away many people like yourself. As a Christian and a representative of Christ, I apologize for that. The message of Christ is a difficult one, but simple, in that He loves us and knows more about us than we do. Please read “The case for Faith” by Lee Stroble. It will give you insight into those tough questions. Christ is NOT a myth and nothing will persuade me otherwise. You’re in my prayers.